Community Run Forums for Starship SF - Twilight (for 35mm film)

Reply #30 - Nov 8^th, 2011 at 1:41pm

David the Projectionist Offline
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Then theres this:

http://www.indiegogo.com/TheLostPictureShow

   Ian's on camera here, as he was interviewed by these people.
   Kiss it all goodbye, folks.
   Just dont whine when it's too late.

I have seen the future, and it is sucky digital....

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Reply #31 - Nov 8^th, 2011 at 10:10pm

Joe Neff Offline
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Ian=my hero.

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Reply #32 - Nov 22^nd, 2011 at 12:41am

L.A. Connection Offline
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Folks I know at the New Beverly Cinema are putting together a petition to save 35mm prints for cinemas. Below is a link wher YOU can sign the petition as well.
The New Beverly is the only remaining full time revival house left in L.A. (when I moved here, there were several). I've seen many of my favorite screenings of all time there. The major point that they are making is that, as David here has noted, is that the studios are phasing out 35mm prints. In the long run that would mean that the Marathon will be digitally projected, save for a few collector's prints we could scrounge up.

Sign, please: http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/fight-for-35mm/

Only You can help keep THE APPLE alive in 35!

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Reply #33 - Nov 22^nd, 2011 at 1:37am

David the Projectionist Offline
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Of course, it could fairly be argued that preserving prints of Xanadu & The Apple for future generations.....

I have seen the future, and it is sucky digital....

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Reply #34 - Nov 22^nd, 2011 at 8:27pm

L.A. Connection Offline
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An article concerning the Petition: http://www.movieline.com/2011/11/talkback-whos-willing-to-fight-for-35mm.php

Have YOU signed it yet?

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/fight-for-35mm/

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Reply #35 - Nov 27^th, 2011 at 10:36am

David the Projectionist Offline
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   Heres what it's coming to, folks:
   Went to see The Wages of Fear at the Harvard Film Archive last night. The print was brand new, & the HFA is boasting about its acquisition, arranged in conjunction with Janus Films. The specific quote, made in front of a fairly large (for the Archive) audience: "We will have this for the enjoyment of future students and scholars."
   Annnnnnnd....the print sucked. And I mean sucked.
   First of all, it was printed off Criterion's HD master, which is what they used for their Blu-Ray release, & it looked it: the whites were blown out, the contrast ratios were shot to hell, the shadow details were lost, the resolution was sketchy (at best), & certain scenes & shots were fuzzy & out of focus.
   And it was printed on colour stock, which means that instead of being black & white, it was olive & white, or blue & white, or magenta & white, with the occasional flash of off-colour weirdness thrown in for good measure. It looked atrocious, & I actually felt I had to apologise to a friend of mine (who had never seen it before & attended at my behest) for that having been his first exposure to the movie. It really was that bad.
   Ive run at least three different prints of this, over my long & peculiar "career", & even the worst of them looked better than this, including a really worn 16mm one that I ran at the Brattle.
   So now: even when you go to see a film shot on film, & even when that film happens to be that director's best work, there is apparently no need to bother keeping to the movie's original look or the director's original intentions (despite what the scumbags at Criterion might argue)! You just cant keep ahead of this spreading blight, no matter how sincerely you try!
   Bad news on the cinema front, kids, because not only are they successfully killing new films, theyre out to murder the old ones, as well.

I have seen the future, and it is sucky digital....

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Reply #36 - Nov 27^th, 2011 at 1:46pm

L.A. Connection Offline
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The problem with cheaply printing on color stock goes back a ways. It really is irritating.
The worst case I recall was for the documentary VISIONS OF LIGHT which was a tribute to movie Cinematographers. It was downright offensive to see dozens and dozens of gorgeous B & W clips with color bleeding all over the image. Nice "tribute", eh?
Surprised they even bothered striking a film print on WAGES OF FEAR. A number of theaters now just show the DVD when there is Blu Ray "restoration". Or, they just deliver Digital Prints. A year or two ago, there was a travelling festival of Hitchcock films that had been "restored". It was entiled Hitch in HD. WTF??!! If I want to watch a video of Hitchcock's films, I'll stay at home........

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Reply #37 - Nov 27^th, 2011 at 3:01pm

David the Projectionist Offline
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L.A. Connection wrote on Nov 27^th, 2011 at 1:46pm:

The problem with cheaply printing on color stock goes back a ways.

Yes, it does. Remember all those anaglyph prints of 3D movies using the red/blue system? The B&W was all clotted up in that as well.
Just doesnt look very good. Never has, never will.

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Nice "tribute", eh?

They dont care.

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Surprised they even bothered striking a film print on WAGES OF FEAR.

As I noted, it was an arrangement between the HFA & Janus. Not sure what the deal was, whether the HFA paid for the print, or if Janus "donated" it. Whatever.
In fifty to a hundred years or so, when the colour fades (as it will), the print will be unshowable. Kind of funny, when you think about it.

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A year or two ago, there was a travelling festival of Hitchcock films that had been "restored". It was entitled Hitch in HD.

Yeah, as if FILM werent already HD plus plus plus! Grin

Morons.

I have seen the future, and it is sucky digital....

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Reply #38 - Nov 28^th, 2011 at 12:37pm

Jay Seaver Offline
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Aaah, I wondered who that was making the disgusted comments when the Criterion Collection logo came up. Really, that was just tremendously disappointing; the digital restoration must have just been at Blu-ray resolution. I personally didn't notice the color stock, but as I like to sit close to the front, jaggies bug the hell out of me. I grit my teeth when seeing the credits look likes something off a computer monitor in a modern film, but then I can at least say that for a good chunk of the audience, it looks "right" and of the time. In something 50 years old, it's downright offensive.

That's my big problem with that petition that's going around. On a certain level, I really don't care about "the human touch"; if I can see the projectionists' hands in what I'm watching, it means someone has slipped up. I just think it's very clear to anybody who watches movies closely that a fair amount of image quality has been sacrificed for the convenience of digital tools. The crazy thing is, you'd think that studios would have learned their lesson from the last few years, when all the 1980s/1990s TV shows shot on videotape looked worse in HD than the older things shot on film. And yet, here they are, placing upper limits on how good their product can look down the road again.

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Reply #39 - Nov 28^th, 2011 at 4:07pm

David the Projectionist Offline
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Jay Seaver wrote on Nov 28^th, 2011 at 12:37pm:

Aaah, I wondered who that was making the disgusted comments when the Criterion Collection logo came up.

That wasnt me! I have to keep my silence in the Cathedral. I giggled once during a showing of King of Kings (during a particularly guffaw-inducing scene), & you would have thought I took a piss in the Holy Water from the reaction.

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Really, that was just tremendously disappointing; the digital restoration must have just been at Blu-ray resolution.

Which is what I said.

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In something 50 years old, it's downright offensive.

Which is also what I said!

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That's my big problem with that petition that's going around. On a certain level, I really don't care about "the human touch"; if I can see the projectionists' hands in what I'm watching, it means someone has slipped up.

Hey! Thats my JOB youre talking about, you great dope! And it takes a whole lot of "human touches" to be invisible, dontcha know!

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The crazy thing is, you'd think that studios would have learned their lesson from the last few years, when all the 1980s/1990s TV shows shot on videotape looked worse in HD than the older things shot on film. And yet, here they are, placing upper limits on how good their product can look down the road again.

Read this over twenty times:

THEY...DO...NOT...

CARE
.

I have seen the future, and it is sucky digital....

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Reply #40 - Nov 28^th, 2011 at 5:21pm

Jay Seaver Offline
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David the Projectionist wrote on Nov 28^th, 2011 at 4:07pm:

Hey! Thats my JOB youre talking about, you great dope! And it takes a whole lot of "human touches" to be invisible, dontcha know!

I get that, and that's the way it is with most people's jobs - it takes a lot of effort to present something that appears seamless. Heck, I am at this moment banging my head against a new tool that is threatening to make my previous expertise obsolete, so I get it. I'm just saying that digital projection's greatest sin is not that it is frequently automated, because that in and of itself doesn't really affect me when I go to the movies unless the automation has been done poorly (which, considering that it's in the hands of people like the folks at Boston Common who still haven't figured out the widescreen settings of the TV showing trailers in the lobby after ten years, isn't unlikely).

After all, that's just an appeal to nostalgia, and while that makes people feel good, having that argument front and center as opposed to "digital makes these films look worse and locks them into never looking better" seems less persuasive to me.

It's just amazing how these people seem to refuse to learn from history. Even if you take folks who just think film looks better out of the equation, or overlook the question of just how much effort studios are going to put into making 4K transfers of B- or C-list titles... Ten years from now, when theaters have upgraded to 8K projection and consumer electronics companies are trying to sell 2160p TVs as luxury items, studios are going to be kicking themselves at having capped their libraries at 2K resolution.

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Reply #41 - Nov 29^th, 2011 at 12:28am

David the Projectionist Offline
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Jay Seaver wrote on Nov 28^th, 2011 at 5:21pm:

as opposed to "digital makes these films look worse and locks them into never looking better" seems less persuasive to me.

Even though it's true?

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It's just amazing how these people seem to refuse to learn from history.

Can we say "trickle-down" economics? Lefties are out to destroy America? Muslims/Commies/Anarchists/etc hate us for our freedoms?
Come on! The entire story of this country is all about people not learning from history! Look at how the bozos down south have been rewriting the actual cause of the Civil War, almost from the day they surrendered!

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Even if you take folks who just think film looks better out of the equation

Even though thats demonstrably, technically, provably true?
Why, exactly, would we want to take them out of the equation? Does the truth make you uncomfortable, Jay?

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or overlook the question of just how much effort studios are going to put into making 4K transfers of B- or C-list titles

Even though they arent?

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Ten years from now, when theaters have upgraded to 8K projection

Youre assuming, perhaps naively, that there will still be theatres around. Guess again. This digital garbage is going to wipe out a majority of them, & when the studios move everyone over to a VOD format -- you know, motion pictures are just "content" to them -- you can kiss the remaining ones bye-bye.
Nobody will be able to afford an 8K upgrade. Do you have any idea how much thats going to cost?

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and consumer electronics companies are trying to sell 2160p TVs as luxury items, studios are going to be kicking themselves at having capped their libraries at 2K resolution.

What you really have to worry about is that they havent chucked all the original negatives into the trash in an effort to save on warehousing costs.
And, just in case you didnt get it the first time, repeat after me:

THEY...DO...NOT...

CARE

.

I have seen the future, and it is sucky digital....

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Reply #42 - Nov 30^th, 2011 at 9:32pm

David the Projectionist Offline
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And then theres this:

http://www.thelastprojectionist.co.uk/

My god, theyre all rushing to record our demise! Ive had three people wanting to interview me on camera about this!
Better they spent their time fighting this digital rubbish!

I have seen the future, and it is sucky digital....

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Reply #43 - Dec 21^st, 2011 at 6:35pm

L.A. Connection Offline
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Well, there's always good old analog VHS Tape!!

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/30/movies/horror-film-goes-back-to-vhs-tape.html?...

Like the Best Zombies, VHS Just Won’t Die

By ERIK PIEPENBURG
Published: October 26, 2011

FOR horror fans like Evan Husney, a movie that looks like it’s been art-directed to death is a real killer.

"It’s hard to get into the aesthetic of shakycam, pretty people, safe scares — like something jumping out at you — and the digital photography and CG blood,” he said.

Mr. Husney, the director of the independent distribution company Drafthouse Films, is part of a small but devoted subset of fans, distributors and programmers who thrill to low-budget horror from the movies of the 1980s: the kind in which brains were made of Jell-O and the cast was paid in wine coolers. These fans aren’t watching movies on a tablet or DVD. Instead they’re blowing the dust off their VCRs and sliding in movies that have been newly released on the behemoths known as VHS tapes.........

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Reply #44 - Dec 22^nd, 2011 at 1:57am

David the Projectionist Offline
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L.A. Connection wrote on Dec 21^st, 2011 at 6:35pm:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/30/movies/horror-film-goes-back-to-vhs-tape.html?...

I posted this link on 26 Oct, & you responded to it, Tony! Is your memory slipping?

I have seen the future, and it is sucky digital....

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