Community Run Forums for Starship SF - Twilight (for 35mm film)

WELCOME to the Messageboard for the Boston Science Fiction Film Festival and Marathon!! What was shown in 2024: THE MATRIX in 35mm! ONE MILLION YEARS BC in 35mm! LAPSIS, READY PLAYER ONE in 70mm! DREDD, MAD MAX, PREDESTINATION, TOP OF THE FOOD CHAIN (aka INVASION), UPGRADE, ATTACK OF THE CRAB MONSTERS, DEEP BLUE SEA in 35mm! and BLAST FROM THE PAST. Plus! A bonus surprise! And, of course, Duck Dodgers! More to come SF MARATHON INFO LINKS SF/49 Official Information Page Click here Reactions to 2024's SF/49 lineup? POST here >List of ALL Films that have played the Marathon. Click below Click here for The History Of The Marathon/Festival The Next Marathon will be held Presidents' Day Weekend 2025 at the Somerville Theater. It will be preceded by the Boston Science Fiction Film Festival. For ticket info: www.Bostonsci-fi.com

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Twilight (for 35mm film) (Read 112717 times)

Oct 14^th, 2011 at 9:20am

David the Projectionist Offline
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   This is a thread I'm starting about the onrushing demise of film. It is getting to the point where, just through attrition, the Somerville is becoming one of the last first run houses to project actual film, as opposed digital.
   As anyone who knows me (or has read any of my now-lost previous posts) is aware, I despise DP with the heat of a super-nova. It is a gigantic lie, a tremendous scam, a vastly inferior way to show a movie in an auditorium. Despite its demonstrable shortcomings (& considerable expense), it's taking over anyway, & audiences & exhibitors across the country are getting it in the neck. The best projected digital image still comes nowhere close to the best projected film image, but you cant use modern prints as a guide, as the prints being struck now are the worst ever.
   The studios are playing a slimy game, by neither announcing nor informing exhibitors of their plans. Are they going to stop producing 35mm prints? They wont say. Is there a cut-off date in the future when prints will cease to be available? The silence is deafening.
   If they do finally cease print production, over half the theatres in this country will go out of business, because they cant come close to affording the costs of digital conversion. Add to that the expense of trying to pay for the inevitable upgrades (just think of your computer), & you have a formula for disaster.
   The biggest danger of all is that this might cause the Eastman Kodak company to go under. If Kodak falls, it's all over: you can forget about seeing a print projected ever again within about a decade or so, as every available venue for getting one closes its doors to protect the now-irreplaceable.
   So for those of you out there who are interested in continuing to see movies the way they are supposed to be seen, there better be one long, sustained howl of outrage, because believe me: those A-Holes at the studios couldnt give a damn.

-- added parenthetical to title for thread clarity, and as not to confuse with that teen vampire film series - admin

« Last Edit: Oct 14^th, 2011 at 10:53am by L.A. Connection »

I have seen the future, and it is sucky digital....

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Reply #1 - Oct 14^th, 2011 at 10:33am

kirok Offline
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Posts: 692

have you tried putting a spatial filter on the fraunhoffer plane?

PANTS UP. DON'T LOOT.

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Reply #2 - Oct 14^th, 2011 at 10:54am

L.A. Connection Offline
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Sadly, this war is lost. Film is going to remain only for archives, museums, cinematheques and a few art houses. And, it's happening at a rapid pace. I will be shocked if mainstream theaters aren't 99.9% digital by the end of the decade (probably much sooner).

A recent article lays it out pretty clearly:

http://www.kansascity.com/2011/09/30/3178044/end-of-the-reel-thing-for-small.htm...

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Reply #3 - Oct 14^th, 2011 at 1:33pm

David the Projectionist Offline
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L.A. Connection wrote on Oct 14^th, 2011 at 10:54am:

Sadly, this war is lost. Film is going to remain only for archives, museums, cinematheques and a few art houses.

   You know, Tony old sock, I'm not sure if youre reading very well.
   I'm not here trying to fight a "war." I'm trying to inform people that if nothing is done -- if they act like you & think all is lost & stick their collective heads in the sand -- then not only will film be gone from theatres, it will also be gone from "archives, museums, cinemateques, and art houses," because no one will want to risk damage to a now-irreplaceable print.
   You wont be able to see film. ANYWHERE. Thats the point I'm trying to get across; thats what I'm worried about.

Quote:

A recent article lays it out pretty clearly

   This is filled with the same old lies I hear about all the time: the superiority of digital (from the company thats making money selling that garbage), the death of worthless theatres, blah, blah, blah.
   Once again, I'm not arguing that film is in trouble: thats pretty clear. I'm saying that if people dont raise a bit of a ruckus, it will be gone forever, along with a majority of the venues in this country, which simply will not be able to pay for obsolescence-filled digital crap.
   Right now, there are DPs out there that are incapable of showing some of the new movies: the equipment doesnt work right; there was a recent disaster in Vancouver; you can read about it here:

http://www.slantmagazine.com/house/2011/10/vancouver-international-film-festival...

   On the other hand, my projectors can run movies shot in the 1890s. Think about it.
   And then think about this: if prints are no longer available, then what happens to your thon? Believe me, the studios have little or no intention of converting their back-catalogue to digital. What are you going to run? DVDs? Well, those will look okay on your home screen, but the larger you magnify the image, the lousier it will look. Whos going to shell out bucks to watch a bunch of discs at a theatre? WTF is special about that?
   This whole lets go to digital hoopla is really, really stupid, and the buyers remorse will come very quickly, I predict.

I have seen the future, and it is sucky digital....

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Reply #4 - Oct 14^th, 2011 at 4:21pm

L.A. Connection Offline
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Mostly all true.

But, the war has already been fought out here in Hollywood. And, we analog types have lost.

Believe me, I am one of those who fight digital conversion EVERY DAY here on the frontlines, but, we have lost.

Period.

The end.

There will still be a handful of outlets who can and will run film prints, but, virtually all commercial theaters will be digital.

The Marathon will be showing whatever archive and private collector's prints we can scrounge up - and DVDs. It sucks, but, we have to face the inevitable.

To paraphrase Neil Young who said years ago about digital and CD's - This will be the first generation who will embrace a technological "advance" that is actually INFERIOR to what came before.

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Reply #5 - Oct 14^th, 2011 at 5:36pm

David the Projectionist Offline
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L.A. Connection wrote on Oct 14^th, 2011 at 4:21pm:

But, the war has already been fought out here in Hollywood. And, we analog types have lost.

See, heres where we disagree. I dont think we've "lost" as long as prints are still being produced. If we ever reach a point where theres no more film & no more labs, then, yes, we've lost. And we're screwed.

Quote:

There will still be a handful of outlets who can and will run film prints

If there are no prints to run, this hardly matters.

Quote:

virtually all commercial theaters will be digital.

Suck, suck, suck.

Quote:

The Marathon will be showing whatever archive and private collector's prints we can scrounge up - and DVDs. It sucks, but, we have to face the inevitable.

I probably wont want any part of that, so lets hope we can put if off as long as possible.

Quote:

To paraphrase Neil Young who said years ago about digital and CD's - This will be the first generation who will embrace a technological "advance" that is actually INFERIOR to what came before.

I like that! Cheesy

Cheesy

I have seen the future, and it is sucky digital....

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Reply #6 - Oct 14^th, 2011 at 6:42pm

R_F_Fineman Offline
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Quote:

To paraphrase Neil Young who said years ago about digital and CD's - This will be the first generation who will embrace a technological "advance" that is actually INFERIOR to what came before.

I hope Neil Young will remember...The same thing happened in the victorian age. Here for example is a digital reproduction of the wedding picture of Kate Chase-Sprague:

It's what people now expect of a qualiy old photograph. Then, if you go to the Sprague mansion in Rhode Island and see the original 8" X 10" struck from a glass plate you can count the links in their pocket watch chains!

Quality dropped when the brownie camera (and, with some irony, its projected 35mm film stock) made photography cheap and easy for the amateur.

When the public, now long-accustomed to fuzzy snapshots and shaky-cam movies, visits the museum they marvel at the original which was once the standard. Huh

Huh

21st Century Man

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Reply #7 - Oct 14^th, 2011 at 6:47pm

kirok Offline
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PANTS UP. DON'T LOOT.

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Reply #8 - Oct 14^th, 2011 at 7:06pm

David the Projectionist Offline
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R_F_Fineman wrote on Oct 14^th, 2011 at 6:42pm:

It's what people now expect of a qualiy old photograph. Then, if you go to the Sprague mansion in Rhode Island and see the original 8" X 10" struck from a glass plate you can count the links in their pocket watch chains!

Obviously, a one-to-one print off a large negative would have fantastic resolution. Thats why 70mm looks so great on screen: less magnification.

Quote:

Quality dropped when the brownie camera (and, with some irony, its projected 35mm film stock) made photography cheap and easy for the amateur.

And quality has dropped even further with all these digital cameras, although some of them are starting to look good. Still not where Kodachrome was (when it frigging existed), but getting better.
And 8x10 and view cameras still survive. For now.

I have seen the future, and it is sucky digital....

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Reply #9 - Oct 14^th, 2011 at 7:08pm

David the Projectionist Offline
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kirok wrote on Oct 14^th, 2011 at 6:47pm:

[img]

Kirok, you do realize that this process isnt necessary when using film, dont you? It's the digital transfer that needs to be cleaned up.

I have seen the future, and it is sucky digital....

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Reply #10 - Oct 15^th, 2011 at 7:40am

kirok Offline
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Posts: 692

it does look like grain noise in the jack N image. but i do contend that a spatial filter can be employed on a digital projection system to remove the raster artifacts.

PANTS UP. DON'T LOOT.

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Reply #11 - Oct 15^th, 2011 at 12:58pm

David the Projectionist Offline
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kirok wrote on Oct 15^th, 2011 at 7:40am:

it does look like grain noise in the jack N image.

I dont know what you mean by "grain noise." Thats a term Ive never come across before.

I have seen the future, and it is sucky digital....

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Reply #12 - Oct 15^th, 2011 at 1:11pm

Caleb451 Offline
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NYC

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On a related topic.
http://www.salon.com/2011/10/13/r_i_p_the_movie_camera_1888_2011/singleton/

Dinner break? What's a dinner break?

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Reply #13 - Oct 15^th, 2011 at 1:28pm

David the Projectionist Offline
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The Living Dinosaur at
the Somerville Theatre

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Posts: 328

Caleb451 wrote on Oct 15^th, 2011 at 1:11pm:

On a related topic.
http://www.salon.com/2011/10/13/r_i_p_the_movie_camera_1888_2011/singleton/

   Thanks, Caleb!
   Yeah, I had already read the original article in Creative Cow.
   I love these purblind A-Holes crowing "it's dead! It's dead!" when well over 50% of the movies being shot today are still being photographed & projected on film.
   As for digital being able to mimic the look of film, that moron has no idea what hes talking about. It's going to be a long time before that comes to pass, because of the technical limitations of the medium. Sure, you can get it to look "filmy" on your monitor, but reproducing that look on the big screen is a whole 'nother matter.
   Heres the rub: those bozos will work & work & lie & work to get their new toy to look exactly like film, so you dont have to shoot in....film. Am I the only one who sees how stupid that is?
   Digital has its own look. If you want to use or work in that look, fine. If you want the look of film, shoot on film. I dont see whats so hard about that.
   I cant wait to read the howls of pain from these sh!t-for-brains scumbags when they go to see some old movie theyve always loved, & the only thing available is a botched digital transfer that looks wretched. O, how theyll cry then.
   Jerks.

« Last Edit: Oct 15^th, 2011 at 7:30pm by David the Projectionist »

I have seen the future, and it is sucky digital....

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Reply #14 - Oct 15^th, 2011 at 1:39pm

Metaluna Offline
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David the Projectionist wrote on Oct 15^th, 2011 at 12:58pm:

kirok wrote on Oct 15^th, 2011 at 7:40am:

it does look like grain noise in the jack N image.

I dont know what you mean by "grain noise." Thats a term Ive never come across before.

It's the agonized cries wheat makes as it is being eaten.

"MAKE ME A SERGEANT, CHARGE THE BOOZE!"

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